Episode Summary
SEO used to be a tactic — now it seems to be a part of every marketing conversation. As AI reshapes how people find information, financial services companies are asking how to stay visible in search. In this episode, Tiffany and Jimmy unpack why SEO is back in the spotlight, how AI tools like ChatGPT have changed discovery, and what to look at before diving into optimization. They share memorable analogies — from red Toyota Corollas to gardens and grocery stores — and explain how to balance paid and organic efforts so your marketing keeps working long after the ads stop.
Key Takeaways:
SEO has re-entered the spotlight because of AI. Firms see their names appear in ChatGPT results and want to know why. What used to be a niche tactic is now a core part of every marketing conversation.
- Many firms feel the sudden pressure to “do SEO” because prospects mention finding them through AI search. But as Tiffany and Jimmy note, SEO and paid search are different beasts, and building long-term authority requires a different kind of investment.
- AI search may be new and exciting, but most people still find firms the old-fashioned way — through Google or direct visits. The smartest teams treat AI as one piece of a broader journey, not a shortcut that replaces solid SEO basics.
- One of our clients saw two older blog posts continue performing long after they were published, while another shifted away from a niche but still received steady traffic from pages months later. Unlike paid ads, which stop the moment you turn them off, SEO keeps building momentum over time.
- We also unpacked a few common myths about SEO:
- Paid and organic search are not the same: Paid ads can drive traffic but they don’t build long-term authority or credibility.
- ChatGPT doesn’t replace Google: Less than 1% of traffic comes directly from ChatGPT, so firms shouldn’t shift all their energy there.
- Quick results don’t (usually) equal better results: Paid campaigns can spike volume overnight, but SEO attracts higher-intent visitors who are already looking for what you offer.
- You might be doing better than you think: Even without a formal strategy, your existing content or PR efforts might already be fueling organic growth — the key is to look at the data and build from there.
Don’t Miss the ONE Thing You Should Go Do First!
- Look under the hood before you try to fix anything. Check your website analytics and see what’s already happening — how people find you, which pages they land on, and what they do next. Then decide where SEO should fit so it works to support the bigger marketing picture, not just the latest trend.
Links & Resources
- The O&A Podcast Episode [#5]: Positioning for Scale in Financial Services: From M&A Readiness to Hiring Momentum
- The O&A Podcast Episode [#4]: Marketing is More Than Just a Pretty Face (It’s the Cake, Not the Frosting
- Case Study: SEO Content Marketing
Join Us!
- Subscribe to our monthly newsletter for practical resources tied to each episode, including recent articles and insights we’ve shared on SEO and marketing strategy.
Transcript
Tiffany (00:10):
So first of all, we love SEO but it's a long game.
Jimmy (00:13):
Everyone's kind of like, ooh, I'm showing up in ChatGPT.
Tiffany (00:17):
Knowing what your website is doing before you start worrying about what it should be doing.
Jimmy (00:24):
When I heard that, I got goosebumps because I was like, that's what I see too. Quick sip.
Tiffany (00:34):
Yes. I'll probably drink it throughout. It's that time of year.
Jimmy (00:37):
I know. It looks like a Christmas cup.
Tiffany (00:39):
Yeah, it is sort of. It's a bit early but cheers.
Jimmy (00:44):
It's okay. It's okay. Before you know it, Mariah Carey, she’ll be back.
Tiffany (00:48):
I know it's a November podcast, so it's snowing in some parts of the country, so all right. Hey everyone, welcome back to The Out & About Podcast, where we break down all things marketing for financial services and everything we're seeing working and things we're seeing that aren’t working, and getting rid of those. So as I always say, whether you've been in the marketing seat for your decades, your whole career, or you were just handed the marketing hat in your new role at the company, we're here to support you. So if you're in marketing in financial services, we're here for you. So today I am joined by Jimmy, a faithful guest, our marketing analytics director. We're talking about SEO, and we just said we're going to keep this short and sweet. So that will be interesting because we can talk about SEO forever.
Jimmy (01:38):
Oh, yes.
Tiffany (01:38):
So many things.
Jimmy (01:39):
And ever.
Tiffany (01:41):
I know, I know. Jimmy, you just shared that you were at a marketing event that was all about SEO and AI and all that.
Jimmy (01:48):
Yeah, well, it was about trends in general and best practices in marketing, but one of the chats was on data in marketing and the role it plays, and obviously if we talk about data, we have to talk about SEO, and it was so insightful. There is this trend, right? Everyone's kind of like, oh, I'm showing up in ChatGPT; how did that happen? And then for some, that journey started that way and somebody tells them, oh, it's probably your SEO. Like, oh, what's SEO?
Tiffany (02:25):
What exactly? I know. I was just thinking about that before we got started. By the way, I think we'll probably be using SEO as shorthand through this whole conversation but we also mean ChatGPT search and AI search. I know we'll break that down sometimes but sometimes it'll just be shorthand for search in general. But yeah, I was just thinking about that. I feel like a year ago even we would have these conversations and it was more obvious about whether people care about SEO or not. But now it's just become — so I have conversations with clients about SEO all the time. It used to be a tactic. Maybe this is what I'm trying to say. It used to be a tactic or a campaign, and now everybody wants to talk about SEO, and I think you're exactly right. I didn't think about that before but it's because people are showing up in ChatGPT, and it's like, what is happening? And I think even before where people would fill out the form and say, well, I found you on Google. We're just all also used to that. People aren't like, oh, do we do more? Then do we worry? But now it's like they found us on ChatGBT; how did that happen? What is the reverse engineering?
Jimmy (03:37):
Yeah, it's really interesting. I think it's one of these things that we call perception, like confirmation bias.
Jimmy (03:45):
If something tells you, do you realize there are a lot of red Toyota Corollas nowadays? And then you start your drive and you go, you're right because you're looking out for it. So one piece of data, one statistic I thought was really interesting was when it was shared that they were comparing telephones. How long did it take for the telephone to reach a hundred million users?
Jimmy (04:14):
And the same for websites and the internet. Well, for ChatGPT, guess how many years it took to get to a hundred million users?
Tiffany (04:22):
Not years.
Jimmy (04:23):
Just two.
Tiffany (04:24):
Oh, it was years. Okay. Two. Oh my gosh. Yeah.
Jimmy (04:27):
In under two years.
Tiffany (04:29):
Yeah, it became instant.
Jimmy (04:32):
So then it becomes that kind of a mentality of if I'm using it and I hear the people around me talking about it, everyone must be using it. I think it's good that people are talking about SEO, because you're right how things have sort of shifted in a way where a year ago we would, or maybe even slightly more than a year or two ago, we would have to say, oh, S-E-O-S-E-O means search engine optimization. This is what it means. It's different from SEM, search engine marketing. And then the question will be, do we really need it? Now it's proactively like, hey, so we need to do SEO — how can you help us?
Tiffany (05:18):
Yes, exactly. Okay, so we're jumping ahead a little bit but before we continue jumping, what are you saying yes to in SEO in particular, or just any marketing these days?
Jimmy (05:35):
Yeah, I'm going to sound like a broken record, but it's relevant to SEO and I would totally say yes to being crystal clear what your brand focus is because that always — and I'm going to sound like a broken record at some point, we'll all probably sound like a broken record — but it's so important. That's the end of the podcast, right? So important to get that, right? What is your brand? What is the focus? What are the target consumers? Because we talked about it, right? It's like a filter that once you have it, almost everything could be passed through that filter. And the end goal is just consistency. Sure, you can change a brand focus at some point but until you change, it needs to be consistent across all touchpoints.
Tiffany (06:24):
So when you say brand, do you mean the services we're offering, like you said, the type of clients we're trying to attract, that positioning statement we talked about a few weeks ago?
Jimmy (06:34):
Yes, that positioning statement. What is your brand? Who are you working with? What do you do? What makes you unique or different?
Tiffany (06:43):
For those who are wondering how that ties into SEO, we will get to that in just a minute. Okay. So for mine, I'll just steal your thunder. Frankly, I was going to say data — knowing what your website is doing already before you start worrying about what it should be doing or how you should be optimizing it, I think that's so key. So when we onboard a client or do a midyear review or just checking SEO in general, we're often aligning that with working with you to figure out what the traffic looks like. How many people are coming in, how long are they staying, what are they engaging with? What are the top pages? What is the website actually doing before we're worried about some random keyword we want to go after?
Jimmy (07:33):
Yeah, exactly. And how are they coming in?
Tiffany (07:36):
Yeah, exactly. How is it already? How are people already coming in?
Jimmy (07:40):
Yeah.
Tiffany (07:41):
Yeah, absolutely. Because I mean, we'll use this as our segue, but yeah, it's critical to know, if SEO matters to you, should it be keeping you up at night? I mean, maybe you're already doing really well. Maybe people are already finding you in search and are coming to the website and engaging on certain things you want them to be, or maybe not, but you really don't know until you look under the hood we like to say. So yeah. Okay. The big question on the table is just should we worry about SEO? Which I guess we already kind of said you should, or no, not should but is everybody worried about SEO? It seems like, but yeah, where do we start with that?
Jimmy (08:28):
I think with SEO, it's first, if you haven't thought about SEO, you should just get some basic understanding, and I do think it's okay, wait, before I upturn the whole episode, I do think it's important to know what SEO is and what it does. Because first, by knowing that, you can then go one step further and go, it's that for me. And that one step further I would recommend would be, once you understand what SEO is and how it works, to then take a peek at the data and let that data point you in the direction of your next step, because maybe you're doing extremely well, that should surprise you or maybe not surprise you, but sometimes it may surprise you like, oh, wow, my top traffic source is organic search, right? Does that mean you stop there? Oh, SEO, time to take a nap? I'm already doing that. No, it just means maybe dig a little bit deeper. What are the keywords? You must be doing something right? That's where you do almost archeology. You go back and wait, how does this work? Reverse engineer and then do more of it, because it could be like we've seen in real-life cases where some people do extremely well in PR, and so naturally your name is just out there and people are just searching for it.
(10:03):
So yeah. So the first step, I think, is to really just understand what SEO is and how it works.
Tiffany (10:12):
Yeah. Okay. So I also need to keep a notepad next to me or something. I want to come back to something there but before we do that, maybe we should talk about what SEO is for those who may need a quick tutorial or maybe myth busting, maybe we just need to do all that.
Jimmy (10:30):
Fun.
Tiffany (10:31):
Yeah, exactly right. Because SEO, we like to say, so first of all, we love SEO but it's a long game. We like to say it's like planting the garden instead of going to the grocery store, which we totally stole from someone on our team. So if you're listening, we stole it from you. But yeah, it is a long game but it's also a sustainable game. So if you go to the grocery store, you only get so much food. So if you go out the grocery store analogy would be paid ads, even paid search. So that can be a differentiation, by the way, for those in that marketing seat who are trying to work with their team. This is an educational moment I know for you. So you have our sympathy but paid search and SEO organic search are separate beasts.
(11:26):
So you can pour money toward something that's not going to necessarily impact your SEO. Maybe you could say you could drive traffic, so maybe there's something there. But really building authority on your site, building good content on your site, building the structure you need for Google to see it as an authoritative place is a different beast. Again, I know this is a myth-busting moment. There are some who would say, well, Google's all one person and if you throw money at it, they're going to give you a little love over here. But we haven't seen that to be the case necessarily that they are separate organisms. Maybe that's the best way to say it. But yeah, so it's a long game but again, it's a sustainable game. So that's why we love it, because if you're building that structure, you're putting the things into place.
(12:22):
I'll just throw out if your H1s are written correctly and your H2s are written correctly on the homepage and your major services pages, you're building content on blog posts that's long and authoritative, full of good information that's pointing back to those other pages, all that good structural stuff, it lasts. I think Jimmy, actually, you and I just looked at a client, obviously we can't talk about which one it is, so hopefully you remember, but remember whoever it was, we were like, oh my gosh, we started doing this two years ago and now we see the impact. Or maybe a year and a half. We're starting to see some things trickling in, even though we haven't been pouring a ton of energy behind it. It was just like we finally started to see the fruit of that, like you said, in that data pool.
(13:12):
Do you remember who I'm talking about? No. It's okay if not.
Jimmy (13:15):
I think I do. I think I do.
Tiffany (13:18):
I should have prepped you. It just dawned on me now. But you do see that. Another example, and you'll know who this is, we have another client that shifted gears away from a certain niche and target group, and we're not doing any work on that at all and they still see the results six months, a year later, the traffic is still going to their site. So again, versus paid ads where it's like once I turn that off, that's done. That traffic stops.
Jimmy (13:52):
Yeah, and I think again, keeping in mind who our listeners are and what they do, just especially those not in marketing, it's not the full-time job for them. I would say one quick distinction will be sure, when you advertise using paid ads, which is always a bit of a misnomer for me, if it's ads, it's paid. But anyway, advertising. If you do advertising, you're paying for it. Then I think one quick distinction will be you're going to get quantity real quick.
Tiffany (14:32):
Real fast.
Jimmy (14:33):
You're going to have that dial turn up real quick, real fast. Where the challenge is, is quality and it works for things you don't really require too much mulling over. If it's just buying, I dunno, maybe for some people they mull over it a lot, but for example, buying lipstick, a t-shirt or something like that. So things like that — you dangle a 10% off or something like that, that works. And then if we talk about SEO, I think then we're talking about, sure the quantity is lower and then it's kind of a drip, drip, drip, but over time the effect is accumulated. And you do get in general, again, nothing is ever black and white, but in general you do get better user intent because again, paid, you could accidentally click on something or you could be just curious, right? Ooh, what is this?
(15:37):
You’re paying for it and you go in and you go out and the balance rate is high, but okay. Yeah. So I do just want to add to what you said. It is true that the effects just keeps going on if something's working, and sometimes it takes time for that effect to show up, and sometimes it can be real quick when we talk to some of our SEO leads and even look at the data ourselves, sometimes they just go, oh, wow, we just started on that.
Tiffany (16:10):
Yeah, that's true.
Jimmy (16:11):
Yeah. Now people are coming in through that. It's just unpredictable.
Tiffany (16:15):
It can happen fast but we try to say it usually doesn't, but it can.
Jimmy (16:20):
Yes, it can happen fast.
Tiffany (16:24):
Especially if you're doing everything. If the structure’s set up well, there's nothing weird happening. I mean, even just things like it's nice, it's secure, right? We had a situation recently where, no, I mean I say recently, but we have had multiple clients’ websites hacked in the past, and that could really mess up your SEO. So just really keeping things clean and again, structurally set up well. But one thing I was thinking too, this is what I wanted to go back to earlier, is also SEO is also a great way to test things without having to pay really too much. I mean, of course you're paying for time if you're creating content and things like that, but you're not actually paying for the ads. So one thing we've experienced with clients is like, hey, this might be a good target market. We think there might be some good traction here. So we can start creating content to that target market and see how it performs. Start to see are people clicking on that blog post? How long are they staying on that post? Is there a downloadable or some sort of call to action at the end? Are they doing that thing? And then you can start to go, okay, that's really happening. I wonder if we should build out a segment in our services or particular to that market or something like that. So that can be an interesting way to use SEO as well. Just kind of to see.
Jimmy (17:59):
Exactly. I would add to that, looking at data regularly, because sometimes you will find like, oh, people are coming to this particular page showing up in my top 10 landing pages and people are coming in through organic search. It's on this topic, which is kind of part of my services but let's just say, I dunno, maybe something about what I do going through a divorce in terms of how do I deal with the finances or something like that. And sure, that's something you handle but that's not a key thing. But then you'd be like, oh wow, people are coming in. So that's interesting too because then you kind of make that decision of, okay, can I cater to that? But also sometimes if they're coming in again, analogies, right? If they're not coming through the main door, they're coming through the back door, they're coming in through the door, so that's good, but how do I guide them through the house? Maybe on that page itself. Let me put another link that's relevant.
(19:06):
I think it's all about getting into that user journey. And even like you said, doing tests. Is this how people are searching for this type of service? Are these the keywords it's providing but also playing the other role and trying to go behind and pretend if I'm them, how would I search for it?
Tiffany (19:31):
Absolutely. Okay, so I keep looking at my time. We're down here and my goodness, we're clicking through time. There's a couple more things I want to cover. So first of all, should we just answer the big question? Do we need to worry about marketing? Yes, you need to worry about marketing. Let no one forget. Do we need to worry about SEO? And my answer is always, again, knowing what your website is doing first, and not only doing, but what's the purpose of it for your team? You can really get in deep with SEO and spend a lot of time and effort around it. But there are some firms out there we've worked with and just in general that are like, what referrals are our main thing. I don't care if anyone finds us online and tries to become a client. So I would say it’s super important to have that conversation initially just, do I need to worry? Do I need to worry about it? Do I need to care? But on the flip side, we have seen just about everyone caring because of the AI and people are searching for their advisors. I think that's again, a myth from the past where people are like, no one's going online. No one's googling to find their financial advisor to find anything in financial services, to find their bank, to find their payroll company. But they are, everybody's using Google and ChatGPT and all those things now.
(21:07):
So again, have that conversation with yourself or with others in the firm. Do we really care if people are searching and finding us? But my guess is 90%, 99%, I don't know, some major percent of people are caring about that at this point.
Jimmy (21:26):
And in terms of ChatGPT and all that, it's kind of like the top of the town — has been for a while — and just want to share some statistics I found really interesting that, so remember that conference I referenced in this talk, it was shared that less than 1% of website traffic comes from ChatGPT.
Tiffany (21:50):
Yeah.
Jimmy (21:52):
And when I heard that, I got goosebumps because I was like, oh, yes. That's what I see too in our data, less than 1% and sometimes it's even less. Should we then say, ah, ChatGPT, this less than 1%. Let's not look at it. No, but it's all about balance. Just because it's coming in from ChatGPT doesn't necessarily mean then let's shift all our resources there. I think we need to balance technology and all that. We need to still devote time to it but not totally shift.
Tiffany (22:30):
It's a journey thing too, right? And this is why I think more and more people do and are concerned about search being found because people are looking, but they don't necessarily, so before you would Google something, you would click on it and go to it. Now you're reading it in the overview. You're reading it in ChatGPT or whatever, but you're not necessarily clicking on it. You might see the little reference link on the side, but if you're looking for the top advisor in New York or the top payroll company in California, or the top bank in my local city, whatever it is, you're going to get that list. I'm talking specifically in generative AI. You're going to get that, well even Google now, you're going to get that list and then you might click it, you might click that little little oval, it looks like an attachment but you're probably also potentially going to go over to Google and then google that name separately. So it's not going to show up that you came from ChatGPT, but then when they contact you and say, I found you through ChatGPT, that's where you can put the connection. So I don't know where I'm going with that, but I think that's part of it.
Jimmy (23:51):
Yeah, that's totally true. And that's a really good observation as well, right? Because I think technology has changed so much in the last 10 to 15 years that the consumer journey, the user journey is no longer, oh, step one, step two, step three, and then I reach your doorstep and now with like, oh, there's YouTube and then there's TikTok, and then there's ChatGPT in the last two years. I think the way somebody gets to that end destination, which is what we want, that the means to that end, the end is still the same but the means to the end has grown. It has become more complex.
(24:30):
Maybe I'll search here, maybe I'll watch a video, but then I know there's the link, but I'm not going to click on it because we also have to think, consumers nowadays are a lot more savvy. They know if I click, I'm going to get ads. So yeah, it's more complex, but it's also more interesting, right? It's like a puzzle that's like, how do I figure that out?
Tiffany (24:51):
So fun.
Jimmy (24:52):
And probably to round it back to I guess how we started, should companies worry about SEO? I would say no, don't worry about SEO. It's one of those things you put in the work, it generally should pay off, will pay off. Whether you need to do SEO or not. I would say you should definitely know SEO, you should definitely keep an eye on SEO, but not everyone needs to do SEO. Because again, referencing what we talked about earlier on a real- life example, you may be so good at your PR that it already generates curiosity when people are searching.
Tiffany (25:35):
Yeah, so true. Oh my gosh. We could keep going.
Jimmy (25:40):
I know as we're talking, we're like, oh, that's this other thing too.
Tiffany (25:44):
So I guess the other thing I would say is if you're going to put the effort into SEO, we also want to recommend that you have a way to capture people — what you want them to do on your website once they get there. So you can put in so much effort, but if you don't have a way for them to easily contact you, and beyond that, I would even recommend some kind of a signup or opt-in or a follow us on LinkedIn — that's one of the socials we recommend with some clients but it's not always across the board, but I think it's one that could be growing over time. Follow us on YouTube, things like that. So it's not necessarily an opt-in, but it's some way for them to continue to stay engaged with you after that.
Jimmy (26:30):
Totally agree.
Tiffany (26:31):
Okay. Well, yeah. Anything else we need to cover?
Jimmy (26:42):
No, but just high five to you for saying what you just said. We have to think beyond. Once the customer, consumer user passes through our main door, what do we want them to do?
Tiffany (26:55):
Yeah.
Jimmy (26:56):
Because if it ends there, they're going to do an about turn and leave.
Tiffany (27:00):
Yeah, it's just pointless. What's the point of that work? Yeah. Okay. So with that, what's the one thing people should go do?
Jimmy (27:07):
Oh, broken record time. One thing, if you haven't already, look at your website data.
Tiffany (27:17):
That was nice.
Jimmy (27:19):
Yeah, if it's Google Analytics or another platform you use, just look at it because yeah, it's interesting. It will tell the story.
Tiffany (27:30):
It's always interesting. When we started working with clients, it's fascinating to see. Some are already doing great and they didn't even know, I mean, we had one client that had done no SEO work but they had these two blog posts Google just loved. For some reason, their website has so much authority, even though it wasn't even structurally sound because of these two posts — you just never know. So definitely look at the data and then decide what you want them to do once they get to your site. Awesome. Anything else? Yeah, anything? Anything about SEO?
Jimmy (28:04):
Oh, lots more, but not in this episode. Stay tuned because I know we’re going to do more.
Tiffany (28:09):
And also just reach out anytime if you're in our circle vicinity, just yeah, connect.
Jimmy (28:18):
Yeah, send us questions.
Tiffany (28:20):
Send us questions. Yeah, maybe we'll do a Q&A on SEO or something like that.
Jimmy (28:25):
Oh, fun.
Tiffany (28:25):
That'd be really fun. Or an end of the year Q&A. I don't know. I'm just making stuff up right now, so I don't know what we're going to do.
Jimmy (28:32):
Ooh, that would be fun.
Tiffany (28:33):
I know.
Jimmy (28:35):
End of the year Q&A.
Tiffany (28:36):
That’d be really fun.
(28:44):
Awesome. Cool. Well, if you love this conversation and want to have more showing up in your inbox or wherever, make sure you head over to outandaboutcommunications.com/community. If you haven't already, get on that newsletter list. We sent out so many great resources in that newsletter in the last couple months, and we're cooking up a few more. So definitely get on that list.
Jimmy (29:10):
No spam. Just all good stuff.
Tiffany (29:12):
Good stuff. And if you've missed one, again, you can always email us or DM us or whatever, and we'll make sure you have access to those. So we'll have the link in the show notes for that. And yeah, you can follow us, subscribe, do all the things. I never know what to say but just make sure you stay connected with us.
Jimmy (29:30):
Or on LinkedIn.
Tiffany (29:32):
That's right. Exactly. Yeah, we're pretty active there. And tune in next time. We'll talk more about SEO and get into the specifics around your website.
Jimmy (29:41):
Yes.
Tiffany (29:42):
Take care.
